Neil Gaiman

Interview by Naile with ZuZu
Article by ZuZu with Naile

Neil Gaiman is a really nice guy.

You hear this sort of thing about a few public figures, and you believe them to be true for the most part. But no matter how sweet his reputation, someone for whom you have an immense amount of respect for their mastery at their craft, the first moment you meet them brings into being an emotional cocktail of abject fear, awe and the overwhelming desire to hug them.

Neil Gaiman knows that about his fans, and rather than smirking about it or shrugging it off, he finds it endearing. This, even beyond his manner of dealing with people, is the mark of a truly nice guy. He's been a fan. He knows the drill. He eradicates the fear by speaking to them, human to human, with one thing in common: knowing the positive energy from certain places in the dark.

He mentioned in The Onion that signing things had become a bit "routine."

"Particularly, that’s much more in the context of a giant signing tour. It was a 21 city, 30 signing tour where most nights you’d be signing for 3-500 people,"' he explains. "I was doing things like the readings chiefly to give myself a certain amount of fun, because simply signing can get kind of wearing. There’s only so many times you can say 'Gwendolwyn, what a lovely name, how exactly do you spell it?' or whatever...staring at people’s belt-buckles..."

The kinship that fans feel toward him is not lost on Gaiman. "There’s a particular 'Brotherhood' out there," he says. "It's like one of those 'Vonnegut-ian karasses'. I go on the signing tours, and book store owners come up to me afterwards and say, 'I don’t get it. Your fans are so nice. And yet the stuff you come up with, some of it is rather dark. And we kind of expected the kind of people who come out for Clive... the sort of scary ones... or the ones that come out for Stephen King, who can be kind of scary, and your guys are just so sweet!' and I go, 'Yes, I’m very lucky.' I just did a signing tour where there were seven and a half thousand people. There was one guy grumpy. He wanted to get 6 things signed, and the limit was 3, and I wound up doing 5, and I said, 'Look, I really can’t sign all this, it isn’t fair to all the other people.' And he got grumpy. That was it. One guy got grumpy out of seven and a half thousand people."

"I honestly can’t think of any unpleasant fan experiences I’ve had. People come up to you and say they love what you’ve written, and thank you. What’s not to like? Occasionally, I feel embarassed for them. It gets weird, when you’re at a signing, and you get some girl of unutterable and unearthly beauty. Sort of supermodel-level girl, and she faints. And you go around and ask 'Are you alright? Are you alright?' and you think on the one hand 'This is really cool! This girl of unutterable supermodel-level beauty just fainted!' and then you go 'Yes, but she’d never really notice me on the sidewalk.'

"Being a writer... people like Harlan [Ellison] especially... it's like you have a personal relationship with this person whom you’ve never met. I’ve known Harlan, so much longer than I’ve known Harlan," he says. "And you have to face up to, and not particularly mind the fact that there are people out there who’ve known you for a very long time. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, and I do like my fans. And oddly, at this convention, everyone’s giving me a lot more space than normally, which I find almost odd. Normally at a convention like this, if I stop moving, if I sit here, people will sort of just start standing in a quiet line waiting for me to sign stuff, or whatever. That was what was happening at the last World Horror that I was at 5 years ago. But at this one, everyone’s sort of..." He makes a "hands off" gesture. "It's really very sweet of everybody."

His ability to jump in the fray and deal with hundreds or thousands of people during his signing tours and emerge unscathed may be because of his calming nature. Because he speaks quietly, he is spoken to quietly. He commands attention because you feel as though he is sharing a secret. In reality, he's spreading his innate ability to find peace, which comes through in his writing. In describing his work spaces at his home in Minnesota, he gives a hint as to why his writing is so, well, dreamlike.

"There are three different places that I write, on the whole, leaving out things like airplanes and hotel rooms. The one that I actually get the most work done in, is a little octagonal gazebo-thing at the bottom of the garden, overlooking the woods, a hundred yards away from the house, which has nothing in it but a desk, a chair, a heater, a little CD player, and a dictionary. I think there may be a Chicago Manual of Style up there too, from the last time I took it up there to do some proofreading, forgot to take it back. And a view over the woods. It's completely boring, and that’s probably the place that I get the most stuff done. There’s no phone line up there, if I take the computer down, or a notebook down, there’s nothing else to do. My only rule is that if I’m there, I can either do nothing, or I can work. So, I can sit there for 15 minutes and stare out the window, and after that you get bored, so you may as well start writing. So there’s that. There’s my real office, which is a basement office. Its just walls, and walls, and walls of dusty old books, and some not so dusty and not so old. And a big old desk, with a computer on it, and piles of CD’s, and currently a large goldfish tank which has migrated down from the bedroom. The big indulgence down there is just books, and a 50 CD changer. So I stick 50 CDs in there, and I press random and that’s it. The other place I write... when it gets late, I tend to come upstairs, and just sort of sit in the sitting room, where there’s a television, and an old wood-burning stove, some shelves of videos, and its sort of more comfortable, on the same floor level where everybody’s asleep, so I sit there, and write a little on a computer on me lap, and make stuff up. The Jerry Springer show is going in the background."

Jerry Springer?

"Jerry Springer’s show is fascinating. It's become as sort of formalized and ritualized as Japanese Noh Theatre. A gorgeous girl comes out and says she is cheating on her lover. And they bring out the lover. And the lover turns out to be either a boy interested in another girl, or a girl interested in another girl, and then there’s a sudden point where you go 'I’ve got it! They’re all strippers!' and they come out and they hit each other."

Gaiman's home state, Minnesota, was brought to public attention most recently because of the election of state Governor Jesse Ventura, a former professional wrestler. To some, this came as a laughable shock. To Gaiman, the underlying political motive of the people is clearer.

"I think Jesse 'The Body' Ventura happened because people are starting to recognize that the current two-party system is not terribly viable. I’m fascinated. As far as I can tell, you have two identical parties to vote from. And when you’re voting for the lesser of two evils, its like 'Well, these guys would probably put me in prison camps if they could, and cut off the hands of any woman they could prove had had abortions, and these guys probably wouldn’t, if they thought it would lose them some votes. So we’ll probably vote for these guys.' So I think Jesse 'The Body' Ventura was probably a breath of fresh air at a time when everybody was very, very tired. Also, its very significant, I think, to look at the timing of when he was actually elected, which is in the middle of this whole Lewinsky nonsense. Every other country in the world has politics, and America has a year and how many millions spent on several blowjobs. It sort of became the politics of blowjobs, and it became one party who didn’t actually quite understand that nobody gave a fuck about the blowjobs."

General opinion in the United States echoes his sentiment. How can you vote to regulate content on the internet, censoring so-called pornography, and publish something like the Starr Report?

"I loved that," he laughs. "The fact that you could download this thing that read like a bad, interminable letter to Penthouse."

The ugly side of freedom of information. There are a lot of Neil Gaiman fan sites on the internet, ranging from information and news to unauthorized presentations of his work and fan fiction involving his characters. Neil makes it clear that he appreciates the original work of his fans online.

"There isn’t an official website. I don’t own control over alt.fan.neil-gaiman, and the other one neilgaiman.com... It has been registered, though not by me. The guy said he’d give it to me, if ever I want it. There’s The Dreaming website, which is terrific. On the whole, my perspective is, that any essays anyone wants to put up, any original art, anything like that... any tribute sites...all that kind of stuff, I have no trouble with at all. I like the fact that people are inspired, I like the fact that they put the stuff up. Once every couple of months, I waste an evening and search around, and go and look at what’s there, and so on and so forth. Then I go 'Why? They’re all mad!' and then I don’t go and look for another 4 months. So there’s that.

"I do get worried and concerned when stuff of mine starts to slip into the public domain, and when people put up stories and poems. I try to explain 'No, don’t do that, don’t go there... don’t post a story by me...' I just agreed to have a poem put up, which is the first time I’ve done this in years, on the Endicott Studio site, Terri Windling approached me to put up a poem. I said, 'yeah, but only if you make it really, really hard to cut and paste the text, for people to put up on their own websites.' I got a little concerned about a year ago, when I discovered that BabyCakes had become one of these pieces of unattributed e-mail postings - stuff people put up on their websites as an anonymous cool thing that somebody sent them, and they sent to their friends. My assistant wound up spending 4 or 5 days just doing search engine stuff for lines from BabyCakes and tracking down websites, sending them e-mail saying 'This is not an anonymous piece of text, it's by Neil Gaiman, it's from this book, it's got this copyright information. We’re not going to be churlish enough to tell you to take it down, but we want a copyright notice. Know that you are using this by permission." It really does trouble me. The whole web and copyright thing troubles me. It troubles me that there are whole books that have wandered into public domain because somebody put them up. And then you talk to people and they say 'Information must be free!' and its like 'No it mustn’t! This is where I get my living from!'"

"And frankly, we’re in an information economy. That’s why its not free. It isn’t, and it shouldn’t be. For a while, it really pissed me off. And I didn’t like it that you’d go to poetry sites, and someone would have put up one of my poems, occasionally introducing mistakes of their own into them. Just because it goes into the public domain, and it's not being protected."

"There’s nothing you can do to stop people who are doing this stuff. That definitely was something I was not pleased about. But as far as I’m concerned, anybody can write any essays they want on Sandman, someone wanted to do Neverwhere fanfiction, I don’t mind about that. Just put a little copyright notice, say this is inspired by this. I think its the kind of stuff people would be doing in ‘zines or personally, only I think they’re doing it for a wider audience, and that’s fine. My only problem is when they take stuff that I’ve written, type it out, put it up on the web, and very often don’t even put up a copyright notice. Or, the other thing is, when they’ll steal it from a website that does have copyright permission, and they’ll put it on their site without that information, and that worries me."

One of the most common questions to a writer revolves around how they got into the business, how they knew that this is what they wanted to do. A writer will generally have a point at which they put to rest the suspicion that they aren't really good enough. Neil's experience was slightly different.

"I was very very lucky, because during that time when I wasn’t very good, I was really, really arrogant. I was talking to a Hollywood producer a couple of months ago. He was saying, 'Have you ever had an idea for a sort of Sherlock Holmes thing?' and I said, 'Oh yes, I came up with a great idea for Sherlock Holmes once, that nobody had done,' and I told him about it. He said, 'Wow, that’s amazing! Did you ever write any of that down?' I said, 'Yeah, when I was about 19 or 20, I did some pages.' He said, 'Can I see it?' and I said, 'Well sure! I know where the folder is with that stuff, I’ll go and find it.' So I had my assistant pull it out, and I sat there and started reading the stuff I was writing when I was 20, and realizing with a strange, cold, sinking feeling that if any fan had come up to me and given me this stuff and said, 'Do I have a future as a writer?' I would have said, 'Look. No. Go into accountancy. Or hotel management. Go get a real job.' I was crap. But I didn’t know this! So I had this ineffable, unshakable certainty of my own astonishing brilliance. I thought I was brilliant! It wasn’t until I started to get fairly good at what I did, that I started to realize how much there is to know. Its sort of, at the time I was ant-sized' I believed I was giant-sized, and now that I’m probably sort of mouse-sized I can look up and say, 'Gee, you can go all the way up to there! Oh my God!' "

There are some that would say that Neil Gaiman is at least cow-sized. We tell him so. "I appreciate the enormousness of that," he says, smiling.

But one cannot argue with the fact that he's hot property. His books are bestsellers, his short stories are treasured, his worlds inspire other writers and artists, he is sought after, admired, lauded, awarded, honored and generally well loved. You'd be hard pressed to find someone that has read his work and doesn't like it. This is the sort of thing that make people's heads swell.

"It's stuff I would have taken very seriously when I was 18, or 20. It's stuff that, having spent a whole career doing this, that I take much less seriously. If this stuff had happened to me when I was young, I would have attributed it to some particular virtue on my part. These days, I tend to regard it as a kind of fortune. I write the kind of stories that I would like to read, that nobody’s writing. So, I write them with an audience of me in mind. I’m very lucky, because people like to read the kind of stories that I like to write. There are at this convention alone, probably, I can think of at least 4 writers who are far finer writers than I am. Much better writers, much more flexible writers, much more really impressive writers who do not catch the public’s taste in what they do, in the same way that I do. Technically they’re better than I am. I’m really lucky. I no longer go, as I would have gone when I was much younger 'Look, its because I’m such a great writer. I’m cool.' It's because I write stories to entertain me and other people out there like the kind of stories I do. I’m lucky. It doesn’t have that 'Look at me, I’m so clever!' quality, if that makes sense. And that’s without wishing in any way to minimize myself as a writer. I think I’ve written a couple of short stories that were probably as good as anything anyone has read. Particularly with Stardust I’m very pleased because I actually wound up writing the book that I set out to write."

"It's so rare. Here I have this thing, that didn’t exist when I started, and wanted to exist when I finished. On the other hand, I’m just about to start a new book which is terrifying. I know the emotion, I know the kind of territory, but I have no idea how it's going to work, or whether it's going to work." He smiles, seemingly incredulous. "People keep giving me money for it!"

People keep giving him money for it because he is good at what he does. A Neil Gaiman story can be appreciated on a very basic, emotional level. You read it once and come away affected in some profound way. Then you read it again and find another level, and yet another. As a reader grows and their tastes mature, Neil Gaiman stories grow with them. Hidden meanings, allusions to other mythos, other works, the changeable world.

"That’s part of the fun. Gene Wolfe is one of my favorite writers in the world. Gene Wolfe defined good literature as that which can be read with pleasure by an educated reader, and re-read with increased pleasure. And one of the things that I really wanted to do with Sandman and I like doing with all my stuff, is to create something that’s lots of fun to read, and has stuff going on underneath. But if you miss the stuff going on underneath, it doesn’t matter. Because there’s a story going on on the top, and you have fun with it. But, the more you know, about the area being addressed, the more stuff you will get. And if you finish the book, and you go back and come through from the beginning again, it’s a different reading experience. You will now know things that you didn’t know before. The shape of the story is going to change. If you read the whole of Sandman, and you start again, with Preludes And Nocturnes, you will find you are reading a completely different story than you were reading the first time."

A character in the book that initially appears incidental will have surfaced later on with more importance.

"Exactly, and knowing the shape of things. And that was a joy. That was something I loved doing."

Gaiman's way of writing in levels is a technique that he shares with Shakespeare. There is a lot of scholarly speculation on how these levels are meshed in such a seamless manner. Is it deliberate to the extent of methodical placement? Is it incidental in the writing process? Is it layed down layer by layer like a cake?

"It’s a road trip. What you do, is that you know that you are going to New York, and that you are starting in Atlanta. And you know roughly the places that you’re going to have to stop on the way, you know some of the things you want to see, and you know that there’s the biggest ball of twine in the world... You don’t necessarily know how long the journey is, you might pick up a hitchhiker at some point...who turns up again at the end, and so forth. But you know where you’re going, and the people in the back of the car don’t. So you have a major advantage over them. There." He pauses. "I think my metaphor has gone to pieces."

In much the same way that incidental characters were taken from Shakespeare's Hamlet and given their own story in Tom Stoppard's Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead, incidental characters from Neil's world of The Dreaming have been lifted and written about.

"Cait Kiernan’s done it a few times, Peter Hogan, just taking a line of Sandman, or a character we came up with for 5 panels, and doing their story. I think it could be fun, although, I also think that sometimes a lot of the power of these things gets lost. You could write a great novel, and someone may well have done, of Lady Macbeth. Her story. How did she get to there. Let’s have Lady Macbeth tell her story, from her birth, to what did her mother do to her, to what was it like growing up in Scotland, what turned her into this evil grasping bitch you see in Macbeth. It would make a great novel. On the other hand, in some ways, it might end up diminishing Macbeth."

"You have tiny little hints of [a backstory], but really, the joy of Macbeth, is that you’re just meeting these people as you go. I don’t know. It might be a fun book to write."

Neil's ability to create entire mythologies that inspire so many other artists has paved the way, more or less, for merchandising. Sculptures, t-shirts, posters, prints, jewelry and more have been created for The Dreaming. It's some of the most unique merchandise for a comic, but Neil has a favourite.

"Probably the Sandman Arabian Nights statue, holding the crystal ball. It was the one where I really felt it was more beautiful than it needed to be. I thought it was wonderful."

A prolific writer, Neil's body of work is not only vast, but varied in tone. It's no stretch to imagine that he is busy all of the time, a notion which is sadly true. But given one theoretical day off of Neil Gaiman duty, a day to do absolutely anything he wants - except writing - he does not opt for an adventure holiday or a spin in a race car like most of the Very Busy. He chooses instead the simple, vital pleasures of daily life.

"I would probably do two things. One of which is spend some time calling old friends. Just calling people who I have drifted out of touch with, or don’t have time to speak to. There are so many people who, on a day to day basis, I feel guilty for not getting in touch with. But, on the other hand, I don’t have the 45 minutes to ring and actually sit there on the phone and say 'Okay, well what’s been happening in your life?' I’d play with the kids, but I do that anyway. I might just do some drawing, just for my own personal pleasure. I get to do so little drawing."

On the subject of 'what-ifs', we asked Neil what one thing he would bring to the United States from his native England. He doesn't miss a beat.

"Radio Four. Although I hear that it's going downhill, currently. But a really good, intelligent radio station. Good radio with good radio drama, good radio news, good radio with a budget. NPR irritates and saddens me because they don’t have a budget, as a result of which, a half-hour news program is 90 minutes of people wittering on because they didn’t have the budget to send anybody to go and do an interview and then to edit it down properly afterwards. Things like that. I really miss good radio. When I get to England, the first thing I do is turn on the radio and pretty much leave it on until I leave."

And if he were to return to England, what would he take back with him?

"If I could take any one thing back to England with me, it would be the idea of "freedom of speech", the idea of the First Amendment. That, I think, easily, far and away, would be the biggest thing I’d take back with me. It’s the one thing, I think it’s the coolest thing that America has, and I think it’s the most under-appreciated, valuable thing that America has, which is why I do the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund stuff that I do."

Neil works extensively in support of the organization that formed using left-over donations for the legal defense of Lansing, IL comic dealer Friendly Frank, after his arrest for selling 'obscene comics'. The organization recently came to public attention for their support of Florida comic artist Mike Diana, after he was convicted on obscenity charges for his publication, Boiled Angel. Most recently, Neil has written a collection of essays and speeches called Gods and Tulips, from which sales will go to the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund. He talks about the Mike Diana case.

"What is scary, is that the Supreme Court declined to hear the case. Mike became the first ever American cartoonist convicted of obscenity. He’s the first American artist convicted of obscenity for their own work. His sentence included 1000 hours of community service, $3000.00 fine, he had a 3 year suspended prison sentence, which he actually served 3 days of, he’s not allowed within 10 feet of anybody under the age of 18, he had to pay for a journalistic ethics course at his own expense, he had to pay for psychiatric counseling at his own expense, and he was forbidden from drawing anything that anyone might possibly consider obscene, even for his own personal use or even when he was on the phone. The local Sheriff’s Office was ordered to mount raids on his house to make sure that he was not drawing anything, not 'committing art'. The Supreme Court declined to hear this. I find this really, really scary. It worries me. It’s the one case the Legal Defense Fund lost up against the hundreds that we’ve won. And that one really worries me."

"We got an appeal to the Florida Supreme Court. They permitted him to go to New York, which is great, because the New York police have much better things to do with their time than raid somebody’s living quarters to make sure they’re not drawing."

Mike Diana's work takes a heavy hand, for which he's suffered a lifestyle attack on the level of victims of the McCarthy era. It alarms artists, with good reason. The cause for speculation as to who's next, especially in the realms of dark fantasy and horror, is a worry that sits in the back of the mind of anyone who's read the reports. Neil's own work is not quite so heavy handed, although his perception of the angelic, for example, does not call for gossamer winged creatures skipping about throwing glitter at everyone. They always seem to have an "edge" or a dark side to them. This is notable in Season of the Mists, in the character of Angela that he created for Spawn, also in "Murder Mysteries" from Angels and Visitations, Good Omens (which he co-wrote with Terry Pratchett), and even the Angel Islington in Neverwhere. So are these angels based on his personal belief of what angels are, or what he would like them to be?

"Neither, really," he says. "Angels always seemed perfect metaphors. I’m so pleased angels are no longer fashionable. I got really worried there, when they got fashionable, and it seemed like I had been writing angels before that, and was waiting for them to be finished. I don’t know what it is with angels and me. Everytime I write an angel, I say 'Alright, that was the last one. That was it. I’ve said everything I have to say about angels.' And then, you turn around, and all of a sudden, I’m doing Neverwhere, and 'Well! The Angel Islington! Yes, let’s put him in!' They’re kind of like cockroaches. You just can’t keep them out."

There’s a metaphor.

"I have no particular plans to write any more angels ever, but I’m sure one day, you’ll turn around, and there’s an angel. But I am pleased that the whole angel thing is kind of over."

If we could just do away with that one last show..."Touched by an Angel"...

"Or at least if there was equal time response. For every episode of 'Touched by an Angel' you had an episode of 'Touched by a Demon'..."

As much as we may like to see him write a television show about demonic influence, Neil is busy with other productions.

"Jim Henson Productions bought Neverwhere. I wrote the scripts for them. They’re just doing a deal right now with Dimension Films, who are the SF arm of Miramax, who will actually be financing and making the film."

Since Neverwhere has already been produced by the BBC in England, one wonders if any of the actors will be used in the new production.

"It's much too early to say. That would depend on the director. The trouble is, frankly, the only cast member who I would kill to carry over is Paterson Joseph as The Marquis, who was just magnificent, and who was exactly what I wanted in my head. I think the problem with that is that The Marquis is a kind of a box-officey kind of part. The thing you do want to offer to an Alan Rickman, or a Kevin Kline, or whatever. Because they would do a good job, and bring some marquee value to it. No pun intended."

Neil also worked on the U.S. version of the Japanese animation hit Princess Mononoke, created by Hayao Miyazaki, to be released on October 29, 1999. Has Neil written any other scripts recently?

"I’ve written a script for 'Snow Glass Apples' called 'Mirror Mirror'. I was talking to Clive Barker, and it looked like I was going to be doing whatever the big movie thing I was going to be doing at the time, and he said well 'Write something small for yourself, just as a small thing, so you get into practice.' I thought 'What a good idea!' so I wrote 'Mirror Mirror'. And I got to the end, and I realized I had written a 35 minute, $4 million movie. And I was like 'Okay, that was a really stupid thing to do.' So, one day. I hope in an anthology thing like that, I get to direct and do this thing that I wrote a script for because I really like it, and I don’t want anyone else directing it because I know what I want it to be. Most of the other stuff, I’m very happy to just write it, and let somebody else worry about the details."

And the burning question: what is in Neil Gaiman's pockets?

"I think its very much the usual things that anyone has in their pockets. Wax lips (a present from Lisa Snellings - she said 'You need wax lips!'), Altoids, knife... stuff. I haven’t actually cleaned them out from the giant signing tour yet. So its everything I had at the time."

Neil has written a story based on the sculpture of Lisa Snellings. For more details, visit http://www.bereshith.com/strange.htm.

For more information about Neil Gaiman, check out our ludicrously vast collection of links.

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